In light of current world events I would like to propose a sticky forum topic where we all can share our knowledge of problems we've encountered with our various instruments and solutions/fixes that we have come up with on our own or have been provided by the manufacturer. I think that we all have a lot of experience with instrument issues and hold a vast amount of knowledge, collectively, in our heads about we ultimately fixed whatever was ailing us and our machines.
This topic is now "sticky". Please feel free to share your collective JEOL tips and tricks!
Hi David and JEOL users,
My jxa8900 shut down yesterday.
The N2 is 80 psi and chill water looks normal, all fuses are good. I turned off "consul electronics" and tried to turn on the main switch, there is no response from mechanic pump, only hear the fan turns. The main switch went back to off position after releasing it (usually it would be at on position if the pump starts).
Any suggestions what might be wrong?
Minghua
Hi Minghua,
That seems to me like you might have something seized in your roughing pump. If the motor on one of the other components is seized then the pump will overload the circuit and it will trip the mains breaker.
I had the main motor on the 8900 at the USGS in Denver go out in November. The service engineer came out and replaced the pump motor and it started working just fine again.
I hope this helps!
Dave
Dave, thank you.
I'm currently experiencing a problem with my PCD. Apparently is stuck in the closed position. I've adjusted the nitrogen pressure as per the service engineer's recommendations but that hasn't fixed anything.
Because of the COVID border restrictions in NZ I can't get a service engineer into the country to do anything about it and I have a probe that's suddenly become a very expensive, very heavy paperweight.
Does anyone have any tips, tricks, and/or suggestions as to how I can unstick my PCD?
Thanks!
David
Quote from: DavidAdams on July 09, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
I'm currently experiencing a problem with my PCD. Apparently is stuck in the closed position. I've adjusted the nitrogen pressure as per the service engineer's recommendations but that hasn't fixed anything.
Because of the COVID border restrictions in NZ I can't get a service engineer into the country to do anything about it and I have a probe that's suddenly become a very expensive, very heavy paperweight.
Does anyone have any tips, tricks, and/or suggestions as to how I can unstick my PCD?
Thanks!
David
Hi David,
I posted elsewhere on the forum about my JEOL PCD problems a while back. Mine went through a year of sticking erratically without the engineer being able to fix it. Cleaning it fixed it for a week or two. We could observe scratching on the plate, so something had too much play in the mechanism.
Relevant to your problem: Initially the engineer tried to bend the spring *in a specific way*. Apparently that worked in Europe on a JEOL previously. But that didn't solve it. But you could try it if you're desparate?
Since then, I bought a new one. The problem came back several months after the new one was installed...we're monitoring it and I told them if it reccurs I'm invoking warranty. I wonder if the problem may be the composition of the alloy...I heard a rumor they changed the composition at some point.
Good luck,
Deon.
Hi Deon,
Thank you for your reply. It's very interesting (and not very encouraging) that you are seeing similar behaviour on your instrument.
I've found that when the PCD gets completely stuck and stops retracting entirely that if I vent the chamber, exercise the PCD for a few seconds then evacuate the instrument once again that the PCD becomes unstuck but the problem always seems to return.
Hopefully once NZ border restrictions are eased then I can get a service engineer over here to have a look at it.
Best,
David
External Control Device: While having the JXA8530F-Plus upgraded to a Windows 10 computer from the Windows 7 computer went smoothly. The new computer was configured to the 8530F when it was shipped, basically worked right out of the box. Had IT connect the 8530 F to the network. Probe for EPMA could not connect to the 8530F. Absolutely no communications between the two computers. Installed the current network card drivers, no success. Tried changing ports no success. The service engineer was as frustrated as I was. What caused the communications to fail that worked before? There is switch that service has access to call "External Control Device". That switch box got unchecked when the network was installed. Rechecked the "External Control Device" box and communications was restored. So if your Probe for EPMA computer looses communications with the JEOL microprobe, check to see if the "External Control Device" switch is still checked.
Thank you David for this topic.
All,
Sorry, this is not related to the probe.
I have a JEOL jsm6700f FESEM, a third party engineer is working on this instrument. He seems not very familiar with this model and want me to check if it is possible to get "a drawing of the column optics" of this model.
Does anyone have this kind of "column optics drawing" by any chance for the jsm6700f?
Thanks a lot.
Minghua
Hi All,
Need your advice. I am running a JEOL JXA 8900 Superprobe. The instrument works perfectly in terms of the analytical part. However, i have a question: in the CRT unit, where we have two monitors (left one for live images, and the right monitor showing the average images). I don`t know if we modify something from the EOS settings, however, the monitor at the left is OFF. We have no signal at all. Is it possible to provide any ideas-suggestions for checking whether is really dead or just deactivated by the software? BTW, by turning ON/OFF the whole unit (at the back there is a small white lever), we still got the same (no signal at the left monitor). Please let me know what you think and if you have related experience.
We were recently contacted by a customer who has been running Probe for EPMA and Probe Image successfully for years on their JEOL 8230, but who reported that both applications started "all of a sudden" having stability issues. Re-starting the applications did not help.
They also mentioned they had recently had some Windows updates and wondered if that could be related to the issue. But we have these applications running fine on both Win 7 and Win 10 on many, many computers, all with the latest updates from Microsoft, with no reports of problems.
Finally we asked them to simply re-boot their instrument, and lo and behold, they reported that everything was running fine now!
We can only assume that over time the instrument microprocessor memory become fragmented or corrupted and that the microprocessor memory was actually the problem. Now although this is a JEOL topic board, I should mention that I have found that I need to re-boot our Cameca SX100 instrument about every six months for probably similar reasons. Especially when it gets utilized 24/7.
And just by coincidence I was speaking this morning with a JEOL engineer and told him the story, and his response was that we should probably: "re-boot the instrument on a regular schedule" because this sort of problem is also seen in the JEOL software side of things after a period of time.
So, that's my tip for the day!
Yes, I definitely find that I have to reboot my JEOL from time-to-time. When I say reboot, I mean closing the JEOL software, cycling the OPE Power, sometimes also cycling the intelligent unit and then starting the JEOL software again.
Often it is not so much stability issues but one of the other software locking up. Overall, if anything starts acting up, it is definitely worthwhile to do this (if possible) as part of the error tracing.
Hi everybody,
This is a question about JEOL software behaviour.
So on the USGS Denver 8530F microprobe I could freely move around both the PC-SEM software window and the PC-EPMA window anywhere I wanted to on any of the screens connected to that computer. On my current setup (an I think some setups at Oz Unis) the PC-SEM Software is freely movable. The PC-EPMA side, however, opens up on a monitor when starting the JEOL software, locks itself into place, and becomes completely immovable. The Title Bar with the Max, Min, and X buttons is completely missing. The only way to get this window to relocate is to close the JEOL software completely, turn off the monitor that the PC-EPMA software decides to open itself on, then restart the software. This has the effect of opening the PC-EPMA software on a different screen but it still is locked and immoveable on the new monitor.
Does anyone have any idea how to get the PC-EPMA title bar back and to allow the window to be moved?
Thanks!
David
I think it is related to the JEOL software version installed. The newer of the 8530s at UWA in Perth also has that window locked in position (but as far as I know it is fully visible), and I think at Melbourne Uni the window became locked when their JEOL software was updated. On our system (installed March 2017) we still have the movable window.
Quote from: Karsten Goemann on April 22, 2021, 01:51:39 AM
I think it is related to the JEOL software version installed. The newer of the 8530s at UWA in Perth also has that window locked in position (but as far as I know it is fully visible), and I think at Melbourne Uni the window became locked when their JEOL software was updated. On our system (installed March 2017) we still have the movable window.
Weird. I'm running version 17 which is the exact same version that I was running in Denver and the behaviour between the two installations is different. I did notice this morning that in the JEOL service engineer only software that there is a "reset window position" button that moves things around on the screens but I don't have the password for that program
Hi, I have that problem too and in my opinion, it is just related to the display resolution (and poor programming).
If I run the display resolution at 1920x1080 I have the problem that PC-EPMA is unmoveable (Monitor is 4K, but the lower resolution displays the PC-SEM/EPMA windows nice and large). If I choose a higher display resolution, I can move PC-EPMA just fine as both windows are displayed smaller.
I think the default position of PC-EPMA is just a little too high so that it cuts off the window title bar. Not sure if that is something that can be defined in Windows/JEOL.
Try if a different display resolution helps in this respect.
We have 1920x1080 on our monitor and the window is not fixed. I actually swap the PC-SEM and -EPMA window positions around as that works better for me with our overall screen layout, so having PC-EPMA locked would be quite annoying.
Our PC-EPMA version says 1.13.0.0, PC-SEM 3.0.1.20, not sure how that translates to 17 (overall version number?). The PC-EPMA window seems around 1280x1050 in size under Win7, so even if I can move it it only just fits when using the small setting for the taskbar at the bottom, not with the normal full size taskbar. We're still on Win7 but as far as I remember my colleague from UMelb was saying that their's became unmovable after a JEOL software upgrade, not upgrade to Win10.
If you have a Windows taskbar at the bottom of that screen, does the fixed position of the PC-EPMA window change if you move the taskbar say to the left screen edge or turn it off for that screen?
Quote from: Karsten Goemann on April 23, 2021, 06:49:49 PM
Our PC-EPMA version says 1.13.0.0, PC-SEM 3.0.1.20, not sure how that translates to 17 (overall version number?). The PC-EPMA window seems around 1280x1050 in size under Win7, so even if I can move it it only just fits when using the small setting for the taskbar at the bottom, not with the normal full size taskbar. We're still on Win7 but as far as I remember my colleague from UMelb was saying that their's became unmovable after a JEOL software upgrade, not upgrade to Win10.
The second number in your PC-EPMA version is the "Version" in JEOL speak. So in your case you're running "Version" 13. I'm not sure why Heather's version 17 allows for the window to be moved and my version 17 is immovable.
Moving the task bar around it is a good test. I'll try that as soon as Sergiy is done in the lab this week.
Quote from: Anette von der Handt on April 23, 2021, 08:49:11 AM
Hi, I have that problem too and in my opinion, it is just related to the display resolution (and poor programming).
If I run the display resolution at 1920x1080 I have the problem that PC-EPMA is unmoveable (Monitor is 4K, but the lower resolution displays the PC-SEM/EPMA windows nice and large). If I choose a higher display resolution, I can move PC-EPMA just fine as both windows are displayed smaller.
That's really interesting behaviour. I have one 4k screen too and when the PC-EPMA window decides to move to that one after a software reset, changing the resolution doesn't do anything. The PC-EPMA window just gets larger or smaller but is still locked in the upper left corner of the monitor
Quote from: DavidAdams on April 21, 2021, 02:48:07 PM
Hi everybody,
This is a question about JEOL software behaviour.
So on the USGS Denver 8530F microprobe I could freely move around both the PC-SEM software window and the PC-EPMA window anywhere I wanted to on any of the screens connected to that computer. On my current setup (an I think some setups at Oz Unis) the PC-SEM Software is freely movable. The PC-EPMA side, however, opens up on a monitor when starting the JEOL software, locks itself into place, and becomes completely immovable. The Title Bar with the Max, Min, and X buttons is completely missing. The only way to get this window to relocate is to close the JEOL software completely, turn off the monitor that the PC-EPMA software decides to open itself on, then restart the software. This has the effect of opening the PC-EPMA software on a different screen but it still is locked and immoveable on the new monitor.
Does anyone have any idea how to get the PC-EPMA title bar back and to allow the window to be moved?
Thanks!
David
Change the resolution on the monitor(s) using the video card software. The NETL 8530F plus is using an Nvidia video card and to get the display to show the JEOL software correctly resolution has to be set through the Nvidia software. Microsoft Remote Desktop does not allow you to change resolutions.
For the frozen epma software I suspect you are using Microsoft Remote Desktop. Try logging off the computer and reconnecting and logging back in. In my case the EPMA window is now movable. If the software is up and running and you reconnect the EPMA window is locked to the left side of the screen. Using a VNC program such as VNC connect ($) lets you change monitor resolution and the EPMA window moves. At NETL I remote to a workstation and then use VNC connect viewer to connect to the Microprobe and Probe for EPMA. I have not found anything I cannot adjust when using the VNC connection.
Hello,
because this came up in a different discussion, it may be worth posting here.
With time, there are various communication/networking issues that seem to accumulate (at least the JEOL probes I worked with) that may benefit from a restart. They can range from PFE being frozen or having erratic communication to problems on the instrument ("jog" doesn't work, spectrometer problems).
Depending on the issue at hand, there are different levels of escalation that one can go through. It may not always required to go as deep as Level 4 but occasionally I find that a level 4 reset, brings "Aprilfrische" back to the instrument.
Here are the different steps for a reset.
Level 1:
Close PFE, PI and whatever would be connected to the instrument
Close the PC-SEM/PC-EPMA and exit the JEOL software. Run the "kill" batch script for good measure.
Level 2:
Level 1 + Restart of both computers
Level 3 (This is what I would recommend for communications problems)
Level 1+ cycle the OPE power. On the front of the probe, behind the plastic window, it is the third button from the top, labeled OPE Power (obviously do NOT touch the main power or vacuum power). Just press the OPE Power button "off", count to ten or so, turn on again. Restart the JEOL software. When it is up, restart the PFE etc. The JEOL software will want to initialize the stage and you will likely have to reset your points unless you established fiducials in PFE.
Level 4 (likely needed for stage and spectrometer problems)
All the way to Level 3 but while the OPE power is off, also cycle the power on the intelligent unit. This is the big box behind the instrument. The power button is in a recess in the lower right corner close to the floor. Turn off, count to something, turn on again. Turn on your OPE power. Restart JEOL software etc..
The JEOL software will not come on fully before the electronics are all back, so give it enough time between each step too.
Hi all,
This is another topic but related to the system maintenance.
does anyone use Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) for the JEOL probe?
We have brown out issues several times recently and shut down the instruments. I want to get a UPS to avoid the shutdown. The circuit is 210 V, what is the peak amps of the UPS needs to keep the probe running for a few minutes? What kind of UPS brand is good to look for?
Any suggestion will be helpful.
Best,
Minghua
Hi Minghua,
My 8230 and 6610 SEM (and computers and monitors) are both running off a Symmetra LX 1600 kVA ups. This gives the lab about 35 minutes of backup power and protects against the voltage fluctuations we have in the new building. I've been using it for ~11 years and apart from replacing the batteries every couple of years I've had no problems with it. Highly recommended.
Cheers
Glenn
Quote from: jeolunlv12 on March 31, 2022, 03:17:22 PM
does anyone use Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) for the JEOL probe?
We have a UPS on our new probe, and had one on the old probe. The new one was supplied by JEOL US and is an Ametek PowerVar Security Plus II. The previous system was a Toshiba 1600 system. I had good experiences with the Toshiba. The PowerVar is too new for me to have an opinion either way.
Both systems are online UPSes and will let you ride out brownouts as well as full outages. Having one is a good idea, as it will also protect the microprobe from all kinds of voltage transients that can degrade power supplies over time. Just keep up on the battery changes.
If there's one thing I could say about the PowerVar unit so far it's that battery changes appear to be much easier and within the expected user service domain rather than requiring a technician. Batteries are expensive, but technicians are vastly more.
Quote from: jeolunlv12 on March 31, 2022, 03:17:22 PM
does anyone use Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) for the JEOL probe?
We have brown out issues several times recently and shut down the instruments. I want to get a UPS to avoid the shutdown. The circuit is 210 V, what is the peak amps of the UPS needs to keep the probe running for a few minutes? What kind of UPS brand is good to look for?
I don't know about JEOL, but our Cameca instrument when installed in 2006 apparently wanted a power supply of 220 volts, not 208v which is what our lab had. To make up for this Cameca normally provides a small transformer called an Oneac(?) which bumped the voltage up from 208 to 220.
But we instead bought an "international" model Liebert UPS which can provide customized voltage outputs, so we could input 208v and the UPS would output 220v, so we didn't need the transformer after that (we'd had this transformer fail on our old SX50 previously).
The Liebert was a really good UPS and our model provided 6 KVA because we powered all the probe equipment off it, microprobe, water chiller, computers, vacuum pumps, etc. Really cool that we've had the power to the building die, and one could keep going with the probe run!
This amount of drain on the UPS only gave us about 10 to 15 minutes of backup, but that was enough to handle either very short outages (< a few minutes) (90% of them) or at least have time put the instrument in a safe state before the UPS started warning us it was going to shutdown.
Eventually the university ran new circuits to our labs that were backed up by emergency diesel generators that will kick in if the power outage lasts more than 3 minutes.
But these our UPS units provide smooth noise free AC power because they are all "on-line" UPS devices, which means the outputs are *always* running off the batteries, and don't have to "switch over" in the case of an outage. I highly recommend these "unswitched" UPS devices as they provide perfect sine wave generation.
As for batteries we have to replace them every 4 years or so, but that only takes about 20 min. They are heavy though. Can't wait for the industry to move to lithium ion batteries. Much lighter!
We also use Liebert with our SXFiveFE, it is 3 unit UPS providing 10kVA + 2x10kVA additional battery packages, able to run machine for 2 hours (when batteries are new). It is kind of a must for field emission machine as turning off and on FEG is not such a simple process, and abrupt switch off FEG is disastrous. Really have no bad word for that UPS. Unfortunately unit was bought without special card for network communication. As it is 30 meters away, direct USB connection is out of equation. Fortunately, I could find open source linux drivers and could put small board Computer, tte reliable (industrial class) Beagle bone black, which watchdogs the UPS, sends the events to the PC, and orchestrates disaster control (sequence of decreasing heating of FEG (The AC is not under UPS, and FEG is very sensitive to temperature increase), if power is not back - shutting FEG gracefully, closing important valves, shutting down PC, switching off chiller (which stops Control electronics of SX to shut off), and preserving all power as long as possible for Ion pumps).
Anyway The UPS is working without any issue from 2014, and had went fluently through many short (up to 20min) blackouts.
Thank you all for the tips, they are very helpful.
Best regards,
Minghua
More proof that software is never finished:
(https://smf.probesoftware.com/gallery/395_05_04_22_10_35_39.png)
:P
Quote from: Probeman on April 05, 2022, 10:39:00 AM
More proof that software is never finished:
(https://smf.probesoftware.com/gallery/395_05_04_22_10_35_39.png)
:P
Maybe we should start a new thread because there are so many typo's in the JEOL software. They're fun little easter eggs sometimes when one has to use that software ;)
Ha, yeah I hear you. I was just making a joke on a slow forum day because it caught my eye, but seriously, maybe better to document these typos off-line.
So if you (or anyone else) has notes (and/or screen shots), please send them to my email and I would be happy to forward these to my JEOL Japan contacts.
Hi everyone,
So here's my scenario:
There's something going on with my Spectrometer 2. Every year since the instrument was installed in 2019 at about the 11-12 month mark the spectrometer drive wire breaks. This spectrometer doesn't get a bigger workout than any of the other 4 spectrometers on my instrument, in fact it probably moves less overall during an average analysis than the other spectrometers. This year's even happened in October and the service engineer didn't come out to fix it for 6 weeks leaving a big hole in the capability of my instrument. The service engineer is also not interested in diagnosing or investigating why this particular spectrometer is experiencing this problem and 6 weeks is way too long to wait for a repair service.
My questions are:
Do people here have experience personally replacing the drive wire on JEOL spectrometers? If so, could you share the process with the rest of us so that we can perform this bit of maintenance competently?
Thanks!!
Greetings,
Didn't hear about your issue till the Newsletter just showed up. Hopefully it's still helpful for the future.
I have an 8500F, but I'll assume it has the same configuration as your machine.
Are you referring to the belt that actually drives the spectrometers (flat gray band) or the braided silver wire with loops at each end that tensions the assembly, and runs around a bunch of pulleys all over the place?
(https://smf.probesoftware.com/gallery/2871_11_01_24_3_04_24.jpeg)
If it's the drive belt, that's something you can certainly do for yourself, though it's pretty annoying, as there's a sort of Mobius Strip folding loop trick to get it installed correctly, and you have to get the loop the right way or it rubs.
The wire, on the other hand, requires removal of the baseplate assembly, which is a pretty hard core procedure that also requires the skill to do a baseplate alignment procedure after reinstall.
If it's the belt that's failing, I wonder if it has been repeatedly installed incorrectly? Believe me, it's easy to do, and I've spent hours staring at the tricky fold/loop trying to decide if I got it right, and even seen technicians second guess themselves. It's also possible that you're just having bad luck. The JEOL Rube Goldberg design is prone to belt/wire failure. I've probably had an average of 1 a year since I've been in the driver seat, but one per year on the same spectro seems excessive even for a JEOL...
Feel free to contact me offline if you'd like more information on the process.
Cheers,
Scott B.
boroughs@probesoftware.com
Hi!
Thanks for the reply. Sorry, I missed it from so long ago!!
It is indeed the braided wire and not the belt that continuously fails. It's possible that the JEOL service engineer is missing something but it also could be a manufacturing defect with this spectrometer. The wire is the piece that fails most frequently on it but I have had to replace the motor O-ring multiple times, the belt has gone twice and the detector has had to be replaced. I think I just got a lemon SP2!
I might send you an email to discuss getting more info about the replacement procedure!
Best,
Dave