Dear all,
my service engineer just made me aware of a potential issue of the upcoming Windows 10 upgrade for JEOL machines running on a PC. Maybe you were already notified by JEOL about this (I wasn't but my machine runs from a HP workstation) but I thought I share it with the community.
On July 29, the new Windows 10 will be rolled out and be available as a free upgrade for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems. In most cases you will have disabled automatic Windows upgrades anyway but in case it is not, JEOL urges you to not install it.
Jerry, my engineer, shared the attached document with me with more details.
Best,
Anette
Quote from: Anette von der Handt on July 23, 2015, 09:06:14 AM
On July 29, the new Windows 10 will be rolled out and be available as a free upgrade for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems. In most cases you will have disabled automatic Windows upgrades anyway but in case it is not, JEOL urges you to not install it.
Hi Anette,
On a related note: I don't know of anyone that has tried PFE on Windows 10, but if someone does, please do so on a non-critical computer only used for off-line processing of PFE- and do please let us know how it goes with Probe for EPMA, at least is reprocessing mode.
I also do not know about Bruker/Thermo compatibility at this time.
Hi,
I've just managed update my laptop to windows 10 and I've tried PFE in offline. Seems to be working fine - no errors. Can quantify data, view peak scans, plot wavescans, view acquired BSE/SE images.
Ben
Quote from: Ben Buse on August 06, 2015, 04:32:47 AM
Hi,
I've just managed update my laptop to windows 10 and I've tried PFE in offline. Seems to be working fine - no errors. Can quantify data, view peak scans, plot wavescans, view acquired BSE/SE images.
Ben
Wow! You are very brave lad, Ben!
But thank-you for the report! I guess Visual Basic still has some life in those old bones...
Just FYI, we're hoping to begin the conversion to .net this fall. I'm sure that will not be so easy.
john
Dear John and All,
I have tested CalcZAF performance under Windows 10 and glad to confirm that the program works well. One small adjustment could be required. In order to avoid scrambled fonts I had to "disable display scaling on high DPI settings". To do it locate CalcZAF.exe (in my case C:\Probe Software\Probe for EPMA), right click on file and activate Properties, go to Compatibility tab and check "Disable display scaling..." option. I also use Windows 7 Compatibility, but this might not be necessary for proper operation.
Cheers,
Sergei
Quote from: smatveev on August 10, 2015, 06:15:31 AM
Dear John and All,
I have tested CalcZAF performance under Windows 10 and glad to confirm that the program works well. One small adjustment could be required. In order to avoid scrambled fonts I had to "disable display scaling on high DPI settings". To do it locate CalcZAF.exe (in my case C:\Probe Software\Probe for EPMA), right click on file and activate Properties, go to Compatibility tab and check "Disable display scaling..." option. I also use Windows 7 Compatibility, but this might not be necessary for proper operation.
Cheers,
Sergei
Hi Sergei,
Excellent, thank-you!
Do the graphics seem to work ok also? For example in the Analytical | Perform Secondary Fluorescence Calculations menu?
john
Hi John,
graphics and calculations (as far as I can judge) all work fine. All what is required for proper graphical representation is "disable display scaling on high DPI settings" in program Properties.
I have used PENEPMA boundary calculations using one of the standard examples Co Ka in Cu for adjucent to C and the simulation and graphs worked just fine.
Sergei
Quote from: smatveev on August 11, 2015, 01:33:02 AM
Hi John,
graphics and calculations (as far as I can judge) all work fine. All what is required for proper graphical representation is "disable display scaling on high DPI settings" in program Properties.
I have used PENEPMA boundary calculations using one of the standard examples Co Ka in Cu for adjucent to C and the simulation and graphs worked just fine.
Sergei
Hi Sergei,
That is a relief though we may ask you (or Ben) to try again in a few days as I will soon be incorporating Gareth Seward's new graphics calls in Standard soon and I don't have Windows 10 yet.
Just out of curiosity, can you post a screen capture of what the graph looks like when the "disable display scaling on high DPI settings" checkbox is *not* checked in Windows 10?
john
John, I believe calculations are working fine. OS does not treat properly fonts inside buttons and options. I attach a couple of images in the next two posts (for some reason cannot attach more than 1 file at a time.
Sergei
In some cases font error can cause real navigational problems (see attached).
or here
Option to check in order to fix font rendering by the system is attached.
Quote from: smatveev on August 12, 2015, 05:11:56 AM
Option to check in order to fix font rendering by the system is attached.
Hi Sergei,
So the plot graphics are not affected at all, only the controls (buttons, checkboxes, etc) font sizes are affected in Windows 10?
And the checkbox you cite above fixes the controls font size issues?
john
Quote from: smatveev on August 12, 2015, 05:07:21 AM
I attach a couple of images in the next two posts (for some reason cannot attach more than 1 file at a time.
Sergei
You just need to click the "more attachments" link under the Browse button.
John, thank you, I overlooked the more attachments button.
Yes "disable display scaling" fixed the problem with font representation, no other options were required.
Cheers,
Sergei
Has anyone tried to run Windows 10 on an online PFE computer? Thanks.
Looks like we will need to upgrade our PfE host on the probe to Win10 soon, so we are interested to see if there are any known problems. Has anyone done this recently?
Quote from: Mike Jercinovic on January 28, 2016, 12:54:03 PM
Looks like we will need to upgrade our PfE host on the probe to Win10 soon, so we are interested to see if there are any known problems. Has anyone done this recently?
Hi Mike,
I think Ben Buse at Bristol is running PFE under Win10. I know Gareth is running PFE under Win8 (there is no Win9!).
There was a problem with the old graphics library calls during the peaking and PHA acquisitions under Win8 and even for "locked down" versions of Win7, but now that I've replaced those calls (and I might even be done with replacing the remaining calls this weekend!), it seems to be running fine.
If it were me I would get a new computer with Win10 Professional on it, install CalcZAF and PFE, copy over my old config files from the ProgramData folder and see if it runs under demo mode (InterfaceType = 0), and if it all looks good, just swap the computers.
The only hardware issue is moving the CAT5 cable from the old computer to the new computer. Remember, you'll want two network cards in the new computer: one for the WWW and one for the instrument private network which has to be statically defined based on the IP address in the Probewin.INI file.
Hi Jon & Mike
No I only run it offline on windows 10. Online computer connected to the instrument is windows 7
Ben
Quote from: Ben Buse on February 03, 2016, 07:38:48 AM
No I only run it offline on windows 10. Online computer connected to the instrument is windows 7
As far as Windows is concerned, there really shouldn't be any difference between running off-line and on-line PFE as there are no special drivers other than the normal Windows network driver. And the network driver is used for both off-line and on-line PFE, so bottom line, it should be fine.
Thanks! We actually already have upgraded some Vista and Win8 machines to Win10 elsewhere in the facility and they seem to run PfE offline just fine, at least from what we have tried so far. Just a bit nervous about upgrading the main PfE machine that actually drives the probe. We'll see how it goes...
Quote from: Mike Jercinovic on February 03, 2016, 11:30:24 AM
Thanks! We actually already have upgraded some Vista and Win8 machines to Win10 elsewhere in the facility and they seem to run PfE offline just fine, at least from what we have tried so far. Just a bit nervous about upgrading the main PfE machine that actually drives the probe. We'll see how it goes...
Hi Mike,
I think the latest PFE will run fine (on-line) on Windows 10. It definitely runs fine on Windows 8 (Gareth Seward at UCSB says so).
But... I never recommend that anyone actually "upgrade" their operating system on their existing computer, as it's my experience that computers just get too slow when you put a new OS on an old computer. Remember, Microsoft developers probably developed Windows 10 on current hardware platforms and so they "adjusted the system response" to what one expects on that hardware. So if you can buy a new computer (they're cheap!), you'll probably be better off running Windows 10 I would guess.
Just my 2 cents.
A main problem with Windows 10 is the enforced update procedure which results in the computer rebooting during PFE runs; problem observed on the new PC at Rutgers. I see there are possible solutions to turn this off, but the "Anniversary Update" of W10 apparently removes the ability to disallow reboot.
How does the system identify that no software is running so that a reboot can be performed? Is there a setting that PFE software can use to tell the OS that critical software is running and no reboot can occur until that is finished?
This is also an issue for upcoming install at NASA JSC.
Paul
Dear Paul,
we keep our EPMA PC connected to inranet only. No downloads - no updates might be a solution.
Sergei
Does this prevent Win 10 from re-booting automatically?
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-prevent-windows-10-rebooting-after-installing-updates
It's a bit complicated, but maybe worth trying?
john
A colleague mentioned to me that Win 10 Professional (as opposed to Win 10 Home edition) allows one to specify not automatically rebooting after an update is downloaded. Is that true?
We have Win10-64 Pro now on both the Probe Software and Thermo PCs on our new JEOL 8530F+ and although it seems possible to deactivate automatic updates it is not straightforward. It also appears to depend somewhat on what "version" of Win 10 Pro you have. Ours are both 1703.
On the Probe Software PC I have managed to disable automatic updates. I found these links helpful:
- https://superuser.com/questions/957267/how-to-disable-automatic-reboots-in-windows-10
(There are more potentially useful settings in that Group Policy Category such as making sure that "No auto restart with logged on users..." is enabled)
- https://justpaste.it/HowDisableWindows10Update
I've tried the same on the Thermo PC but so far it is still doing the automated updates. The Probe Software PC shows a red notice in the Update window "Some settings are managed by your organization" which seems to indicate that whatever I've done there is slightly different as the Thermo PC is so far not displaying that message. I will have to sit down and carfully compare all of the settings....
So the Thermo PC is currently still rebooting at 4am, as it is not possible to set the "active hours" longer than 18 hours, which is not ideal for combined WDS-EDS runs. For the time being I have "paused" the updates under Advanced Options in the Update window, and when I come in in the morning I unpause, check for updates, install if any found, and pause again...
Another thing I recently had with PFE under Windows 10 is that updating PFE through the help menu, running the PFE installer, or trying to uninstall PFE all stopped working. CalcZAF and Probe Image were not affected.
The main/first error message displayed was:
"The feature you are trying to use is on a network resource that is unavailable."
Pointing the installer to a different ProbeForEPMA.msi in a different location did not make a difference. Deactivating virus scanner /firewall didn't help either.
In the end I used the following Microsoft fix to get it working again:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-in/help/17588/fix-problems-that-block-programs-from-being-installed-or-removed
When you run it it asks you specifically what you want it to look at in the list of installed programs and I pointed it to Probe For EPMA. It then did its thing and simply reported that it had fixed something without giving any details... According to the info on the Microsoft page for the fix it might have been a corrupted registry entry specifically for PFE.
Cheers,
Karsten
Quote from: Karsten Goemann on November 16, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
According to the info on the Microsoft page for the fix it might have been a corrupted registry entry specifically for PFE.
Hi Karsten,
That is interesting because PFE doesn't use the Windows registry for anything, except to set the Surfer "working directory" just before it launches a quant mapping script for Surfer. And that is only from CalcImage when one outputs a quant map for presentation.
john
Quote from: Karsten Goemann on November 16, 2017, 02:31:31 PM
We have Win10-64 Pro now on both the Probe Software and Thermo PCs on our new JEOL 8530F+ and although it seems possible to deactivate automatic updates it is not straightforward. It also appears to depend somewhat on what "version" of Win 10 Pro you have. Ours are both 1703.
On the Probe Software PC I have managed to disable automatic updates. I found these links helpful:
- https://superuser.com/questions/957267/how-to-disable-automatic-reboots-in-windows-10
(There are more potentially useful settings in that Group Policy Category such as making sure that "No auto restart with logged on users..." is enabled)
- https://justpaste.it/HowDisableWindows10Update
I've tried the same on the Thermo PC but so far it is still doing the automated updates. The Probe Software PC shows a red notice in the Update window "Some settings are managed by your organization" which seems to indicate that whatever I've done there is slightly different as the Thermo PC is so far not displaying that message. I will have to sit down and carfully compare all of the settings....
So the Thermo PC is currently still rebooting at 4am, as it is not possible to set the "active hours" longer than 18 hours, which is not ideal for combined WDS-EDS runs. For the time being I have "paused" the updates under Advanced Options in the Update window, and when I come in in the morning I unpause, check for updates, install if any found, and pause again...
Has anyone found a method to prevent Windows 10 from rebooting after updating? I found this link but haven't tried it yet...
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-prevent-windows-10-rebooting-after-installing-updates
They suggest disabling the "reboot" task which seems a little extreme.
Hi All,
I'm using some of the lab's downtime to try and update the PFE computer to Windows 10.
I'm using a fresh install of Win10 Enterprise and PFE. I'm copying the config files over from the Windows 7 install. I can run PFE in offline mode but when I try to connect to the probe I run into a problem. I get an error message saying that amb_jeol8x00 is not found. (see attachment). In the windows 7 install this file is in C:\Program Files (x86)\Probe Software\Probe for EPMA. I have a copy in the same folder in the WIN 10 install. Has anyone seen this or have any idea what the problem is? As far as I can tell the permissions are the same for both files.
Thanks in advance
Glenn
Hi Glenn,
Normally PFE looks for this file in the Windows\SysWOW64 folder. Assuming you have a 64 bit OS. For a 32 bit OS, use the Windows\System folder.
This driver file shouldn't be in the application path at all, since each app (PFE, PI, Thermo, Bruker), all need to access it for instrument communication. Putting this driver in each app folder means you'll have multiple instances of the driver in memory all trying to talk to the instrument, slowing things down.
I'll send you a document to your email.
john
PS You did install the EIKS stuff also? The JEOL EIKS DLLs *do* need to go in each app folder, because it is not multi-threaded like our driver.
I agree with JEOL on installing windows 10. I have found the JEOL software version 1.13 on the standalone workstation runs fine on Windows 10 (64 bit). NETL is on maximum telework so I am not at the probe to get the actual version number. I am waiting for JEOL to build the new windows 10 computer upgrade for the 8530F plus as some of the windows 7 board(s) would not work with windows 10. We are behind on updates as version 1.16 would not run on the Windows 7 64bit system and proceeded to erase some of the software. Not sure what caused this, but JEOL had to replace the SSD to get the backup to recover.
PFE I find to be more stable on Windows 10 than Windows 7, less ELKS errors.
Keith
Is anyone running Probe for EPMA on Windows 10 Enterprise Edition?
It should run just fine as it does under Win 10 Professional, but just curious if anyone is using Windows 10 Enterprise Edition...
john