Flank method spectrometer resolution

[Ben Buse]

Hi

I can't find the data I'm looking for

Does anyone have a comparison of flank Laf/Lbf ratio curves vs Fe2+ conc for spectrometers with different resolution - e.g. TAP vs TAPH vs TAPL

Thanks

Ben

[Ben Buse]

Hi

I can't find the data I'm looking for

Does anyone have a comparison of flank Laf/Lbf ratio curves vs Fe2+ conc for spectrometers with different resolution - e.g. TAP vs TAPH vs TAPL

Thanks

Ben

This is a general flank question. It relates to line fit through calibration dataset on the La/Lb vs Fe2+ plots. With different mineral groups falling on different lines.

I feel sure someone already looked at this but can't find the paper

How using TAP, TAPH, TAPL, PC0 or SXES changes the position and slope of the fit line

Aurelien Moy did this for Fe La quantification and area k-ratio in his paper "Quantitative Measurement of Iron-Silicides by EPMA Using the Fe Lα and Lβ X-ray Lines: A New Twist to an Old Approach"see figure 3 but has it been done for flank method?

Zhang, C., Almeev, R., Hughes, E., Borisov, A., Wolff, E., Hofer, H., Botcharnikov, R., & Koepke, J. (2018). Electron microprobe technique for the determination of iron oxidation state in silicate glasses. American Mineralogist, 103(9), 1445-1454. Show how fit can vary from session to session - again figure 3 - has this been done comparing crystals with different spectral resolution?

[Ben Buse]

As an aside this looks an interesting paper - although currently can't access maybe because at home - "A fast open data reduction workflow for the electron microprobe flank method to determine Fe3+/ΣFe contents in minerals"
Dominik C. Hezel, Heidi E. Hšfer, and Andreas Fichtner

They use TAPL crystals - I was previously looking for reference to previous use of TAPL crystals in flank

Online documentation also https://hezel2000.github.io/mag4/microprobe/flank-method/welcome.html

[Ben Buse]

As an aside this looks an interesting paper - although currently can't access maybe because at home - "A fast open data reduction workflow for the electron microprobe flank method to determine Fe3+/ΣFe contents in minerals"
Dominik C. Hezel, Heidi E. Hšfer, and Andreas Fichtner

It also states ' Clearly defining file formats and thereby following international conventions allows for synergies across software, for example, the measurement template as well as required Flank Reduction spreadsheet structure will both soon become part of ProbeSoftware (https://probesoftware.com).'

Is this the case?

[John Donovan]

It also states ' Clearly defining file formats and thereby following international conventions allows for synergies across software, for example, the measurement template as well as required Flank Reduction spreadsheet structure will both soon become part of ProbeSoftware (https://probesoftware.com).'

Is this the case?

Yes, we implemented the Flank export format in Probe for EPMA here:

https://smf.probesoftware.com/index.php?topic=1605.msg12804#msg12804

But we haven't received a "measurement template" or the "required Flank Reduction spreadsheet structure" from Heidi.  Maybe contact her directly...

[Ben Buse]

Thanks I mail Dominik

This seems to be the import format https://hezel2000.github.io/mag4/microprobe/flank-method/data-reduction-program.html

But the program https://flankmethod.streamlit.app/ seems to have gone to sleep. The program is now available here https://hezel2000-flank-method.share.connect.posit.cloud/

[John Donovan]

This seems to be the import format https://hezel2000.github.io/mag4/microprobe/flank-method/data-reduction-program.html

The most ridiculous aspect to their "flank" format is the use of "fake" elements in the spreadsheet. I assume because the JEOL software cannot handle duplicate elements...

[Ben Buse]

The most ridiculous aspect to their "flank" format is the use of "fake" elements in the spreadsheet. I assume because the JEOL software cannot handle duplicate elements...

I did see that, JEOL can have duplicate elements, I guess it's to distinguish between Fe La flank measurement and Fe Lb flank measurement, rather than simply two channels labelled 'Fe'.

What we need is either Dominik or Heidi on this forum! 

[John Donovan]

The most ridiculous aspect to their "flank" format is the use of "fake" elements in the spreadsheet. I assume because the JEOL software cannot handle duplicate elements...

I did see that, JEOL can have duplicate elements, I guess it's to distinguish between Fe La flank measurement and Fe Lb flank measurement, rather than simply two channels labelled 'Fe'.

What we need is either Dominik or Heidi on this forum! 

I think Dominik and Heidi were using the old (UNIX) JEOL software which did not support duplicate elements.  I suspect they just kept it this way even though the PC JEOL software can have duplicate elements.

Either way, they should have just used the element label with an x-ray label like we did when you and I worked on the Flank output from PFE:



Much less confusing this way!

https://smf.probesoftware.com/index.php?topic=1605.msg12804#msg12804

[John Donovan]

What we need is either Dominik or Heidi on this forum! 

Is the current Flank format output in Probe for EPMA helpful? 

If you can get in touch with them, I am happy to work together to get the optimum Flank output from Probe for EPMA.

[Ben Buse]

Is the current Flank format output in Probe for EPMA helpful? 

Yes it's helpful, I wouldn't want to change the current Flank format. More a question whether Dominik or anyone using his method want's a new output format added.

[John Donovan]

Is the current Flank format output in Probe for EPMA helpful? 

Yes it's helpful, I wouldn't want to change the current Flank format. More a question whether Dominik or anyone using his method want's a new output format added.

We would be willing to implement a different Flank output format (is there a reason the current Flank output format isn't sufficient?), but I would oppose having these "fake" elements included in the output. The actual elements and x-ray lines (and anything else) should be explicitly named in the column headers.